NOTE: This post will not sit well with the majority of Christians who read it. I am asking questions and having thoughts that probably qualify as heresy to most. I’m well aware of that fact. If you have a thoughtful, rational response, feel free to post it. If you want to post that I am damned to hell, save your breath because I will delete it. The status of my soul is not yours to determine and I’ll remind you that if you’re a Christian, you’re not supposed to judge, and if you judge me for daring to ask questions, then you will have my pity, and your post deleted. I will not tolerate abusive behaviors here.
Discussion and examination are, however, more than welcome.
I know that I am no Bible scholar. Yet, perhaps this is why I see what I have seen. I don’t wait for someone to tell me what something means. I read, and while understanding the culture in which, and for which, a work was written, I can make value judgements about what I have read. This is a part of the skill of reading, to not blindly accept a printed word, but to evaluate and seek understanding of it. What I see is not often what is the “accepted” meaning.
It has happened again. I have realized something, and it is disconcerting to say the least. I have no answer or explanation for it, except that there seems to be no refutation of what I have seen.
Those who know me well are aware that the fastest way to bring my full fury is to lie to me. A lie will absolutely enrage me. In the rare instances when I must tell a lie, I direct that rage at myself for letting myself get into a situation where I felt it needful to lie. I hate deceit.
Yet, I feel I have been lied to. I am, currently, in a state that resembles shock because of it. I am also quite angry at the injustices that this lie has been used to gloss over or to ignore entirely. I am angry at the lives lived believing in it, and at the people who have propogated it.
In Christianity, in the version I was taught at least, humans are given freewill. It is what sets us apart from angels. It is what allows us to have the chance at salvation. My recent examination of this was actually begun from simple thought about the Asatru teachings of wyrd, or destiny. One path teaching that there is a choice, one teaching that your life is written before it is begun. Comparing and contrasting viewpoints is something that makes my mind a very happy place.
Thus it was that I stumbled into the realization that Christianity lies when it teaches freewill. At the very least, it lies when it teaches that God wishes us to have a chance to choose. The examples proving the point are so numerous that I found myself short of breath at the horrifying loss of human life, lives that were snuffed out and that were never granted validation.
First I looked at the story of Noah and the great flood. The short version is, God got tired of people not following him, he had Noah build the ark, he flooded the entire planet, and left only Noah and his family alive with a bunch of animals.
So, I went and looked this up again. Most are familiar with the story, but there’s not a lot of actual reading going on. My thought, when I went to look, was to see, was there a chance for mankind to turn away from not following God? Was there a choice given?
Here’s what the Bible says: (references taken from http://www.biblegateway.com)
[Gen 6: 1-3] 1 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with [a] man forever, for he is mortal [b] ; his days will be a hundred and twenty years.”
Wait… what? God saw his sons, presumably angels then, marrying humans, got pissy and cut short the lifespan of the humans? He didn’t like exactly what, by the way? That his angels had families and left his side to be with them? I’m already not liking this. This sounds like a child having tantrums over not getting the toy he wants. The idea of God cutting short a human lifespan over it sounds like the actions of a jealous, or mentally ill, lover who says, “If I can’t have him, no one will.” As I said, this is already not helping the case to turn to aid Christian belief.
[Gen 6:4] 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
(Interesting side note: nephilim = children of angels and humans, and for those into the darker mythos’ in the world, if angels can have children with humans, and demons are fallen angels, then the stories about human/demon offspring are at the least, backed by this one statement in the Bible.)
[Gen 6:5-8] 5 The LORD saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. 6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. 7 So the LORD said, “I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.
Now, explain to me, please, where humans are given the choice? God just sweeps over the earth, decides “This man isn’t bad, I’ll pick him. Then he sets in motion the plan to destroy everything?
See, here’s the problem. I was taught that God loves us all. If that’s the case, why did he spend the first part of the Bible destroying humanity in a fit of pique? Why, and moreover, how could he do it? God is portrayed as our father, our creator. I am not a father, but I am a mother. Yes, there have been moments when I was furious with my children. I never wanted to harm them, though. We put parents who kill their children into prison, or into mental hospitals. Why does God get a free pass here? If one person loves another and kills them, they go to prison. Depending on what they do, they may go to death row. Again, why is God seen as just in doing this?
But back to the issue of free will. These people who lived on the earth at this time were not likely so different from those of us here now. They were families. They had parents, siblings, spouses and children. They likely had dreams and hopes. They mourned the passing of their elders. They celebrated the birth of their children. They loved, they warred, they created music and art. They were human beings.
At no point in any of this do the people have a chance to hear “There is a God, he loves you. He wants to help you have better lives, and wishes you to follow him.”
In fact:
[Gen 6:11-13 ] 11 Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. 12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13 So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them.
Notice that God mentions the earth being corrupted, and violent, but none of the diatribe I’ve heard so many preachers spouting about how the people were all gays and murderers. No, the ultimate reason for the flood is, “the earth is filled with violence.” Now, what have we to say about going to war? (Nevermind the obvious hypocrisy, I’ll get to that one another time.) There is, also for the record, no mention whatsoever of people mocking Noah, or even that anyone lived near enough to him to know he was building the ark. No account of people scrambling at the sealed door as the waters rose behind them. Thank you Hollywood.
So, the earth is wiped out. Noah’s family survives. God destroys everything, including, if there were the children of his children (nephilim), his own grandchildren. No mention however that anyone was told “By the way, I know your parents/grandparents didn’t tell you, but there’s a god out here, you should get to know him.” Not even an attempt to contact these people.
And time rolls forward, the stories continue. We come to Abraham, a man called out of a city, in an age when people had again forgotten about (at some point) this god who destroyed the earth. Abraham wasn’t born a Christian, or a Jew for that matter. He was born to a pagan culture. He left it, but how did he know to do so? Because God reached out to him and said “Hey, come with me, okay?”
Abraham is out wandering around with his household. For those who don’t know, that doesn’t mean he and his wife. It means him, his wife, their servants, their servants families, their slaves, all the herds, and so on. He had a pretty decent tribe with him, even when starting out. God decides he doesn’t like Sodom and Gomorrah. They’re wicked and evil, he’s going to wipe them out.
I like Abraham. I really do, and for this one thing alone. I just think, as I read over all this again, that it is absolutely disgusting that a human have more compassion than the god he serves. Not to fault the human, but to absolutely give reason to question the value and validity of the word of that god.
God sends visitors to Abraham who then tell him that they go to investigate claims of evil against Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham asks them to spare the city if there are fifty righteous in it. Then he goes back until he bargains them down to ten. They will have to find ten righteous men in the city to let it stand. I call that some courage! I also call it a sense of compassion, because Abraham knew what is never taught in our churches today. These people also had children, wives, and dreams. They were humans. They weren’t Hebrew, or Christian, or followers of god, but they were human beings. They were destroyed without a chance to turn back. They died and God spared Lot’s family despite that Lot tried to buy off a crowd with his own daughters. I’d have slit Lot’s throat and taken the women out. What kind of father offers his daughters up to be gang raped? What kind of god lets an act like that go unanswered?
The kind of god who says that we have the freedom to choose, but lies and destroys those who have never had the opportunity?
Free will, under the teaching of the Christian church, is a myth. There is no free will. The sacrifice of Jesus did not change this. Even in the end, having accepted Jesus will not guarantee salvation. There is no “once saved, always saved.” Your salvation can be taken from you even after your life, after you have no chance to correct things you may not have known were wrong at the time.
The evidence is here:
[Matt 25: 31- 46]The Sheep and the Goats
31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45“He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
So, there will be those who choose God, and who are still damned. If that doesn’t scare the daylights out of every Christian, it should. The story of “Choose God and live forever” is a lie. Yes, a lie. Let’s be very honest with ourselves on this. People are deceived into Christianity every day. There is NO promise of eternal life just because you said a prayer. If you said a prayer and thought that was it, you’re setting yourself up for a fall that is pretty long. If you’ve told people that this was all they had to do, you better go back and correct that now, while you can. Of course, there’s also no mention of the people who are not, and never were Christian, who do these things. Will they go to Heaven for filling the needs of their poor and imprisoned? Not according to the way salvation is taught. It smacks of a horrible double standard to me, but that’s just my take on the matter. No points for doing the right thing without the threat of Hell. Nice way to cripple the human desire to be compassionate?
According to these things though, there is no free will. Jesus said to go into all the earth and teach. But what about the people who lived generations without hearing? According to the example of the old testament, they’re all damned. There is no place they’ll be sent after death, no limbo in which to wait. They were not given a choice.
I’ve been taught to value life, all life. I’ve been taught, and believe strongly, that generosity, a sense of charity and caring, are valuable traits to have, and that each life has value. I’ve been taught to stand up for what is right, and to stand against those who would harm others unjustly. I’ve also been taught, and believe, that lying is one of the worst things you can do. So why is God lying, and if God isn’t, why are people lying about him?
Either way, it does seem that the entire concept of free will is a myth. Either a myth or a practical joke that went badly wrong.